Manual Brake Question
- Thread starter Sandy
- Start date
Re: kit
[quote/]If you dont replace the lines or the stock proportioning block it works just fine to hook them right into the master cylinder the way that they are in the car. [/quote]
That's exactly what I said. I'm just trying to say don't omit the factory style combo valve unless you have separate front and rear m/c's.
[quote/]I have installed many of these master cylinders on 200mph promod cars and some of the fastest 10.5 cars and they never had an issue with combo valves or stopping. If you replace all of your brake lines on your car and you are putting on a wilwood master cylinder, the paper that comes in the box tells you what percentage of the pressure will come out of which ever port it says. [quote/]
They also have skinny front runners and at least a 10.5" wide sticky as you-know-what rear tires. Of course they stop well without a combo valve. It's almost impossible to lock the rears first in that set up. Almost all dragsters don't even have front brakes. If you tried to panic stop a disc/drum car with regular sized street tires and no combo valve, I could almost guarantee you'd lock the rears way before you started to get the car safely stopped.
I'm not arguing with you and I'm not saying your installs were wrong, I'm just adding info to what you said, that's all. I already said I didn't know if Wilwood's m/c's were biasing, so I learned something new. I'm basically talking about single m/c systems that are mostly based on factory style stuff. In that scenario you have a HUGE safety issue if you get a big enough leak without a combo valve. It's impossible for a single master to isolate the front and rear circuits. The combo valve shuts down whichever circuit loses pressure so you don't pump the system dry.
Sorry if you thought I was trying to make you look bad or to get you mad,
Tommy
[quote/]If you dont replace the lines or the stock proportioning block it works just fine to hook them right into the master cylinder the way that they are in the car. [/quote]
That's exactly what I said. I'm just trying to say don't omit the factory style combo valve unless you have separate front and rear m/c's.
[quote/]I have installed many of these master cylinders on 200mph promod cars and some of the fastest 10.5 cars and they never had an issue with combo valves or stopping. If you replace all of your brake lines on your car and you are putting on a wilwood master cylinder, the paper that comes in the box tells you what percentage of the pressure will come out of which ever port it says. [quote/]
They also have skinny front runners and at least a 10.5" wide sticky as you-know-what rear tires. Of course they stop well without a combo valve. It's almost impossible to lock the rears first in that set up. Almost all dragsters don't even have front brakes. If you tried to panic stop a disc/drum car with regular sized street tires and no combo valve, I could almost guarantee you'd lock the rears way before you started to get the car safely stopped.
I'm not arguing with you and I'm not saying your installs were wrong, I'm just adding info to what you said, that's all. I already said I didn't know if Wilwood's m/c's were biasing, so I learned something new. I'm basically talking about single m/c systems that are mostly based on factory style stuff. In that scenario you have a HUGE safety issue if you get a big enough leak without a combo valve. It's impossible for a single master to isolate the front and rear circuits. The combo valve shuts down whichever circuit loses pressure so you don't pump the system dry.
Sorry if you thought I was trying to make you look bad or to get you mad,
Tommy
Re: kit
[
Tommy, have you ever installed a Wilwood M/C or spoke to one of their techs? You say it WILL lock up the rear drums, yet mine works fine. I didn't just go humb dumbing around with my own engineering, I consulted the manufacture and followed their recommendation. I have no doubt in my mind that your info may be correct for a stock application m/c but the m/c that Wilwood is selling has brake bias built into it. Check it out on their site they have it in plain ole English. I know where you are coming from on alot of your brake posts and for that matter appreciate it, but if you aren't 100% sure about something you shouldn't post it. At the same time, on the street I would prefer not to be rearended by some joker that read on the internet that he could do away with his prop valve and whatnot, as he was installing a power disc m/c on his drum equipped manual brake car. I know it is a catch 22, and I hope that anyone reading doesn't think I am trying to bust your balls or something.[/quote]
I don't think your busting me and I am basically talking about stock stuff. That's why I asked what m/c you used, because I wanted to learn.
And yes, I've installed many Wilwood, Lockheed, Brembo, AFCO, Tilton and other brake m/c's pedals, calipers, drums and accessories, so I 'm not at a complete loss of knowledge here.
In any event, the responses I've gotten prompted me to think that I'm getting rusty and I'm remembering things wrong. I got out the old GM manual, and sure enough, I was.
The combo valve doesn't isolate the two circuits, as I thought it did. I have edited my FAQ's sticky appropriately.
Apologies to all I may have confused or made angry.
Tommy
[
Tommy, have you ever installed a Wilwood M/C or spoke to one of their techs? You say it WILL lock up the rear drums, yet mine works fine. I didn't just go humb dumbing around with my own engineering, I consulted the manufacture and followed their recommendation. I have no doubt in my mind that your info may be correct for a stock application m/c but the m/c that Wilwood is selling has brake bias built into it. Check it out on their site they have it in plain ole English. I know where you are coming from on alot of your brake posts and for that matter appreciate it, but if you aren't 100% sure about something you shouldn't post it. At the same time, on the street I would prefer not to be rearended by some joker that read on the internet that he could do away with his prop valve and whatnot, as he was installing a power disc m/c on his drum equipped manual brake car. I know it is a catch 22, and I hope that anyone reading doesn't think I am trying to bust your balls or something.[/quote]
I don't think your busting me and I am basically talking about stock stuff. That's why I asked what m/c you used, because I wanted to learn.
And yes, I've installed many Wilwood, Lockheed, Brembo, AFCO, Tilton and other brake m/c's pedals, calipers, drums and accessories, so I 'm not at a complete loss of knowledge here.
In any event, the responses I've gotten prompted me to think that I'm getting rusty and I'm remembering things wrong. I got out the old GM manual, and sure enough, I was.
The combo valve doesn't isolate the two circuits, as I thought it did. I have edited my FAQ's sticky appropriately.Apologies to all I may have confused or made angry.
Tommy
No not mad, just dont want anybody confused by all the talk about combo valves. Some people have questions about how things work and then after everybody puts their ideas or thoughts in then everybody is still scratching their heads. I dont want to sound pissy because I am not. I am sorry to come off that way to everybody.
burban said:
X 2, I just didn't want people to be getting scared away from Travis' kit. As you know, or should know, I will not post on here unless I am sure of what I am typing. Thanks again for double checking the service manuals
One of my buddies used the power brake MC. It was mounted using a 1.5 inch thick aluminum block spacer on the firewall. The rod was cut to length using the stock position on the brake pedal.
The line lock is installed on the MC line closest to the firewall.
A brake proportioning valve is installed in the forward MC line.
His setup works perfect.
It is a disc/drum setup.
The line lock is installed on the MC line closest to the firewall.
A brake proportioning valve is installed in the forward MC line.
His setup works perfect.
It is a disc/drum setup.
Talked to a guy this weekend at the strip with a 9.5 second monte carlo and he said he was using the power MC with no problem.
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