Register    Login    Forum    Search    FAQ



Board index » TECHNICAL » Alcohol/Ethanol




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:38 am 
Offline
Frequent Racer

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:21 pm
Posts: 528
Guys, I thought I would pass some information that I have recentlly learned messing with my alky carb. I'm new to this stuff so this may not be the gospal but hope it may help someone. I bought a used alky carb to dyno my 468 with from a buddy. He had only ran the carb one weekend and went back to gas saying he didn't like the alky. I had noticed his motor never idled right on with carb and had a huge stumble on takeoff. The price was right on the carb so I figured I could fix it. My motor acted like it wanted to jump off the dyno below 3000 rpm so I new something wasn't right with it. I called the guys who built the carb and they sent some different emulsion bleeds for it, that made no change in it. I got tired of messing with it and borrowed an APD alky carb from a buddy. The thing fired right up and idled like it was on gas and was a complete different motor with his carb. He told me the guy that had it was bad about overtightening stuff and had warped the main body sealing surfaces on his gas carb and messed up the idle on it since the gaskets wouldn't seal. The builder told him to have the sealing surfaces flycut and it would fix it. He took a file to them and fixed the problem with it. Since the same guy owned this alky carb, it seemed like that would be the problem. I filed them flat and threw new gaskets in it and it made no difference. My buddy came over to help me with it and it would run good after we took it apart and blew air threw all of the holes in the metering blocks. I decided to drill small holes in the throttle blades so I could close them up a little and have better control over the idle mixture. Put it on and it ran like heck, same horrible fat idle and a horrible studder at tip in. When I took it off I noticed some white junk coming out off the squirters when I pumped them dry. Took it apart and they were full of the white crud that the alky leaves behind when it drys up. I figured that stuff got under the needle and seats and caused some flooding. I new that carb cleaner won't touch this stuff, so after some head scratching, I decided to use something on it that would disolve calcium since that is what the alky leaves behind when it drys. It's hydroscopic, meaning it absorbs moisture from the atmosphere. I know it seems kinda jickey, but I used CLR to clean that stuff out and it worked like a champ. We put it back on and it ran good for a while but acted the same yesterday when I tryed to warm it up to change the oil in it. This thing is driving me nuts by know, I'm just about out of ideas. Since it always ran good for a while after we cleaned the metering blocks out I thought maybe that stuff had plugged something up in one of them and just wouldn't come out with the air pressure. So, I soaked both of them in the CLR for about an hour and a half, washed them out with hot soapy water and blasted em good with the garden hose and blew them dry with compressed air. Put it back together and shazaam, she idles great and takes throttle like the race motor that it is. I've decided that I'll have to remove the carb and flush it with gas thru the vents and pump it thru the accelerator pumps to make sure I don't have these problems in the future. Sorry for the long post, but I thought the whole story would show the problems you can have if you don't do some maintenace with the alky. Thanks for reading, L.T.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Mon May 02, 2011 7:59 pm 
Offline
MalibuRacing Junkie
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2007 8:07 am
Posts: 4375
Location: Lederach
the white stuff may have been aluminum oxide...corrosion from the aluminum body.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue May 03, 2011 8:32 pm 
Offline
Pro Stocker
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 2451
Location: Crete,IL
I drain the fuel bowls after each race weekend. You can run gas through the carb if it's going to sit for a while. For the winter I drained the whole system and ran 1/2 gallon of gas with Sta-Bil through the system. Lee

_________________
ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 6:27 pm 
Offline
Dragway Regular

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:15 am
Posts: 1125
Location: Genoa,Oh
Oh boy the "big" debate of alky and having to drain it or not....

Westxm what you had was an alky carb that had alcohol sitting in it for a long period of time and dried up.. The white powder is typical of just that happening due in part to climate change.. It's not something that will happen just because the alky is sitting in the bowls or fuel system for a week or a month but in fact over a period of time..
I myself and many racer's will leave the fuel system and carb completely fuel of alochol over the winter and never have a lick of problems..
Yes you can do want Lee stated, but it's not needed if the car is raced every weekend..If the carb is to be pulled and then emptied of all alcohol then yes it would be wise to pull the site plug off the bowls and fog with WD-40 along with accel pump till the squirters shot WD out.
Other than that THERE IS NO SPECIAL MAINTENANCE NEEDE FOR RUNNING ALCOHOL. 8)

side note,, i also noticed you stated you used an APD alky carb,,, GOOD CHOICE! ;)

_________________
9.90's @ 132 mph weighing 3384 lbs on a little sbc motor.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:15 am 
Offline
Frequent Racer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:57 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Tuttle Oklahoma
I agree with nightstalker, I have never had a problem letting alcohol set in my complete fuel system for long period of time.

I know people that put top lube in there alcohol and it will jell up over time. But I don't run any kind of top lube and I have NEVER had a problem yet with it.

There are way to many myths about alcohol.

I love it and will never run gas again #### I even run it on cars that only run in the low 12's high 11's, to me it is easy to maintain and cheaper than gas.
I run no special pumps or anything like that.

Long live getting the motor drunk. :lol:

_________________
gastric sleeve bypass 2/21/2011 as of 8/22/2011 I weigh 265 have lost 126 pounds so far.
max weight was 391 hoping for 225


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 8:17 am 
Offline
Frequent Racer

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:21 pm
Posts: 528
Night Stalker, the guy I got the carb from usually doesn't race every weekend and I think the used carb had really been neglected. It is a Quickfuel p850a. The guy I borrowed the APD from races every weekend and never drains his stuff and doesn't seem to have any problems. He runs a toilet on his small block bracket car. The guy I got the Quickfuel from brought his alky Dominator over yesterday since it has sat all of last winter and I was really surprised that it wasn't in that bad of shape. It had a little of the white crusty stuff in the float bowls and on the metering blocks but nothing too major that would cause it not to run decent. He said he had left it full of alcohol over the winter. He said the Klotz was helping quit a bit. The Quickfuel seems really sensitive to any crud in it since it has lots of small orifices in the metering blocks. I think I'll stick to yanking it off and flushing it every time I run it. I even bought some 8 an caps to block off the bypass on the fuel pump so I can put a little air pressure in the fuel cell to push everything thru the hoses. I'm gonna continue to flush with gasoling until I get the car ready to run it. I've just been trying to get it to run right so I can drive it on the hauler to get it to the paint booth. I appreciate you taking some of the mystery out of the alky deal. There aren't a lot of guys around who know the benefits of the stuff and how to keep it from being a problem. Thanks again. L.T.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 9:54 am 
Offline
Pro Stocker
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 2451
Location: Crete,IL
I also will never go back to gas. Alky is $2.50-$3.00 a gallon vs. $11-$13 for 110 VP. I did have an issue with the top lube gelling. I talked to VP and they said cut back on it. I did and still had gel in the carb. I will not use the top lube anymore. Other than that I love the stuff. I call it the "Nector of God". :D Lee

_________________
ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:09 am 
Offline
Frequent Racer
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2007 6:57 pm
Posts: 545
Location: Tuttle Oklahoma
I like that Lee "Nector of God" that is a good one

_________________
gastric sleeve bypass 2/21/2011 as of 8/22/2011 I weigh 265 have lost 126 pounds so far.
max weight was 391 hoping for 225


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 11:23 am 
Offline
Pro Stocker

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:59 pm
Posts: 1803
Location: La Marque, Texas
I too have had issues with gel in the carb. i guess maybe i will try no top lube as well. because of the gelling issue i pull and clean my bowls and metering blocks ever since i had carb issues after just draining the bowls and letting it sit for a month. now i pull the stuff off and clean everything real good. i always make sure i have carb cleaner with me now lol. however i only race about once a month maybe twice. i too as stated before will never go back to gas.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 2:40 pm 
Offline
Dragway Regular

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:15 am
Posts: 1125
Location: Genoa,Oh
Yes the upper lube will aid in the gelling process as it is oil.. What happens is the alky being very cold fuel with a small amount of water in it and climate/temperature changes will then make a gelling substance.. Put it another way, i've seen guys on warm or hot summer days that they're carbs are running alittle rich that the intakes about 3" down from the carb will FROST over due to the coolness of the alky.. :shock:

You can't beat the performance gains from alcohol and the price.. ;)

_________________
9.90's @ 132 mph weighing 3384 lbs on a little sbc motor.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 5:18 pm 
Offline
Frequent Racer

Joined: Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:21 pm
Posts: 528
Are you guys having issues with the gelling running the M-2 by chance? I always heard the top lube that VP puts in that stuff is crap. Everyone around here swears by the Klotz. I know that dominator had fuel in it that was full of the Klotz and it didn't gel up over the winter. I heard about the stuff from an engine builder that was having carbs done by an old circle track racer who has been building alky carbs for about thirty years. They like the Kl-100 that has the castor bean oil in it, but the rep told me the Uplon burns a little cleaner, that's what we've been using.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:35 pm 
Offline
Pro Stocker
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 10:32 pm
Posts: 2451
Location: Crete,IL
My manifold also frosts when you first start the car. Yes, it is VP M-2 that I was running. Also, in my previous post I spelled "nectar" incorrectly. I'm weird about that, I am particular about my spelling. :D

_________________
ImageImage


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 05, 2011 7:49 pm 
Offline
Dragway Regular

Joined: Tue Nov 03, 2009 10:15 am
Posts: 1125
Location: Genoa,Oh
westexun wrote:
Are you guys having issues with the gelling running the M-2 by chance? I always heard the top lube that VP puts in that stuff is crap. Everyone around here swears by the Klotz. I know that dominator had fuel in it that was full of the Klotz and it didn't gel up over the winter. I heard about the stuff from an engine builder that was having carbs done by an old circle track racer who has been building alky carbs for about thirty years. They like the Kl-100 that has the castor bean oil in it, but the rep told me the Uplon burns a little cleaner, that's what we've been using.


Doesn't matter what upper lube it is,, it all will gel at some point..Klotz is no different, as most teams for the World of Outlaw Sprints,ASCS,All-Stars would run Klotz not all but some did,, i would remember seeing these guys having to blow the stack injection and down nozzles out after a heat or main race as the fuel would cause the intakes or around the head where the down nozzles went in frost over and start to gel up bad!!
I remember talking with Karl Kinsler and Earl Gearte about this one evening at Eldora and it was cause from the amount of alcohol being used or burned and flowing threw the nozzles or down the injection mainfolds that would do this..

Anyone who has or is running alcohol will know this,,, as what happens or how long can you hold your hand in an open container of race alky.??? If no one has tried it,,pretty fun game to bet your buddies with to see who will last the longest.. :mrgreen:

_________________
9.90's @ 132 mph weighing 3384 lbs on a little sbc motor.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri May 06, 2011 6:01 pm 
Offline
Pro Stocker

Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:59 pm
Posts: 1803
Location: La Marque, Texas
the gelling happened with VP's M2 and the grape smelling crap from jegs. my manifold runners and carb base plate dont frost but are wet and cold to the touch after a pass and while warming up. so it may be frosted during a pass i dunno.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu May 12, 2011 1:20 am 
Offline
Dragway Regular

Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:29 am
Posts: 1322
Location: OKC
I run Klotz Uplon, and have never had any issues, and I NEVER drain anything. Pulled my car in the garage in October, didn't touch it until March and started it up and went and raced. My brothers car sat for over a year once...started up like a new cadillac.

I've had years where I've went through 400 gallons of alky, never drained, never run a filter. Maybe i'm just livin' right.


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Board index » TECHNICAL » Alcohol/Ethanol


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: