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 Post subject: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:09 am 
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Has anyone converted their H4656/H4651 headlight set up to HID? There is so much out there, especially on eBay, it's hard to tell what's good and what's junk. And I would like to buy from some one reputable. What should I look out for when buying one of these set ups?

thanks

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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:13 am 
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All I did when I put HID's in my 76 cutlass was order the glass housing from advance auto and then get a H7 HID kit (i think it was h7).

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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:54 am 
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I took your idea of getting the glass first and then get the HID's. Found this website that sells the glass, http://rimiusa.com/. The have a kit where you can buy both the low and high beam glass so they match. I went with the clear diamond ones. So now I just have to find a H4 HID kit.

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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:55 pm 
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I had some in diamond cut headlights too. It depends on what conversion kit you get, most of the conversion headlights (from sealed beam to replaceable bulbs) use the H4 bulb.

Make sure you pick the right temperature, the higher you go the less visible light the bulb will produce. I stick with 8k on all my vehicles because it has great light out put and the color is perfect.


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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 2:36 pm 
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Thanks for the advice on the color temperature, I was debating between the 6k and 8k, so i'll go with the 8k.

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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 6:41 pm 
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No prob to me 8k is the perfect temperature for those head light housings specifically. They weren't designed for HID bulbs in the first place the lower the kelvin the bright the light is and vice versa. Manufacturers typically use 4300k and 6k which is fine for projector equipped vehicles, because they can aim the light without blinding on-coming drivers with ridiculous amounts of light that is not aimed correctly.

You can aim those housing successfully but getting a softer light color like 8k will keep oncoming traffic from flashing their brights at you. BTW on our cars the best thing to do, is to get the relayed harness that runs off of battery power and uses the bulb plug as a 12v trigger. Running the HID's right off the plug will reduce their life significantly.

Hope this helps.


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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Fri Jun 21, 2013 8:43 pm 
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In reading up about the HID's, I did see some talk about the relays and most people said that it wasn't necessary. But for the few bucks it will cost, I'll go with your recommendation and put it in.

Thanks!

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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:51 am 
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yeah it's a small insurance cost to make sure you don't have to keep on changing ballast, because if you hardwire them into the system you will be changing them. I've had HID kits on all the cars I've driven since 04' and back then the very first kit I bought was $350 bucks. Like with all good things the market was flooded with dirt cheap imitations.

I've gotten all my kits from vvme.com and if something ever does happen they'll replace it for free you just have to ship it to them. Normally you can save yourself the hassle by just getting the harness.

The reason I recommend them is because upon vehicle start-up there is a surge of electricity that goes through the harness of any vehicle. If it is hooked directly to the bulb harness it can zap the ballast and make it flicker upon it igniting the bulb or just eventually go out all together. The harness keep the line dead until you yourself hit the headlight switch. Plus the extra wiring allows for a tidey install.

Sry for the book, but even though its only like $30-40 for a decent kit, burning out crap and having to ship it back in the long run will cost way more.

Post some pics of your car when you put them on, I have a long roof myself but no HID's as of yet.


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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:11 pm 
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Most of you guys know I'm not one to flame anyone, so don't take this as an attempt to insult anyone that has HID lighting. There's LOTS of misinformation floating around on car websites about converting to HID.

H4 bulbs are not HID. They're incandescent. Keeping that in mind, using a "plug & play" HID bulb in an H4 reflector is a sure way to spend good money to put less light on the road & blind people coming the other way. HID bulbs use an electric arc to make light. Incandescents use a filament. The HID arc is perpendicular to the H4 bulb filament. There's no possible way to use the reflector for an H4 bulb with an HID bulb & get any type of usable beam pattern. The HIDs are designed for projector lenses, period. Another thing most don't mention is that you will almost definitely lose either your low beams or your high beams unless you spend some pretty good money.

My suggestion would be to get in touch with Daniel Stern. He can hook you up with a relay kit, REALLY good H4 reflectors & bulbs to optimize your headlights without spending anywhere near as much as you would for a true high/low beam HID system with decent electronics/ballasts. At the very least, there's good info there to read.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html

Now, if you're dead set on getting an HID conversion kit, get relays like TTLSX418 mentioned & don't be talked into getting anything without a separate, quality ballast.

Tommy

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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 12:00 am 
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LS6 Tommy wrote:
Most of you guys know I'm not one to flame anyone, so don't take this as an attempt to insult anyone that has HID lighting. There's LOTS of misinformation floating around on car websites about converting to HID.

H4 bulbs are not HID. They're incandescent. Keeping that in mind, using a "plug & play" HID bulb in an H4 reflector is a sure way to spend good money to put less light on the road & blind people coming the other way. HID bulbs use an electric arc to make light. Incandescents use a filament. The HID arc is perpendicular to the H4 bulb filament. There's no possible way to use the reflector for an H4 bulb with an HID bulb & get any type of usable beam pattern. The HIDs are designed for projector lenses, period. Another thing most don't mention is that you will almost definitely lose either your low beams or your high beams unless you spend some pretty good money.

My suggestion would be to get in touch with Daniel Stern. He can hook you up with a relay kit, REALLY good H4 reflectors & bulbs to optimize your headlights without spending anywhere near as much as you would for a true high/low beam HID system with decent electronics/ballasts. At the very least, there's good info there to read.

http://www.danielsternlighting.com/home.html

Now, if you're dead set on getting an HID conversion kit, get relays like TTLSX418 mentioned & don't be talked into getting anything without a separate, quality ballast.

Tommy


Ok there are a number of things that are wrong in this response so I'm going to pick this a-part and shed some light on the subject.

1.) First there IS an H4 HID bulb and there IS an H4 incandescent bulb. The HID bulb just has the same mounting base as the incandescent which allows the HID part to be retrofitted AND the HID bulb (or the correct HID bulb) has the proper reflectors built onto the bulb base.

2.) ALL HID bulb arcs are perpendicular to their bulb, even the ones that come stock on vehicles from the factory. The electric arc is ignited by the ballast and heats the noble gases (xenon, krypton, and argon) that are in different concentrations coherent to the temperature you purchase when you order the lights. That is why the lights look like they "pop" when they turn on and get brighter as they warm up, because they are in fact warming up all the gases. (4300, 6k, 8k, 10k, 12k, 15k, 30k,)

3.) HID bulbs ARE NOT designed strictly for projector housings. There are plenty of vehicles that come from the factory with normal headlights, having no projectors in them, that utilize the HID bulb. For example... first gen G35 coupe/sedan, first gen prius (that have the option), second gen escalades.... the list goes on. It is all about aiming the reflector. The bulbs are better used in projectors lenses but are not specifically for them.

4.) You WILL NOT lose your either your low or high beams if you purchase an HID kit. They have what is called single beam HID kits and Bi-xenon kits which have a magnetic actuator that will pull the actual bulb back into the position the high beam would take. I know this because I have some on my daily, and they work great. Again that is called BI-XENON. Google it.

Don't be scared of HID kits, they put out GREAT LIGHT but using them safely and aiming them properly is KEY to being friendly to everyone on the road.

I read that site you posted and he has a lot of great points, but you don't have to go through retrofitting a projector lense to get great light output from one of these kits. I know he argues against every single point that I have made, but I am basing my knowledge/experience off of trial and error not reading books or cruising ebay for cheap knock-offs.

Don't be afraid, these kits will work safely and effectively if you take the time to set them up right.

No disrespect to LS6Tommy, but that's just the plain truth. If you have any more questions let me know.


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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:49 am 
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You have some absolutely very valid points, so first let me say thanks for updating me on some things. I'll admit forgetting about the H4 HID bulbs & the cars that had factory HID without projectors. I was flat wrong. I may have come off sounding like I want people to avoid retrofitting HID like the plague. I'm not. Uncountable guys have done it, using both the cheapo Ebay stuff & well thought out systems like you mentioned. They are obviously happy.

I didn't mean to have Daniel Stern's link there to try to prove my point. I just put it there so the OP had access to the info about the relay kits & incandescent upgrades.

As I do now & then, I'm just throwing in my $.02 playing Devil's Advocate because I just want all our members to get to hear as much info as possible from both the "pro" & "con" points of view to help them plan their stuff.

I'm still not being argumentative, but now let me make my friendly rebuttal. :lol: Those H4 HID bulbs indeed have a reflector, but I'm pretty sure they're not designed to be a drop-in replacement for an H4 incandescent bulb. Do they work? Yes. Are they brighter? Oh yeah yes. Are they optimized? Probably just a question of subjectivity, but I can't see how. In terms of proper optics, the housing must be designed for a HID from the word go. The Lexus & Prius you mentioned did not have projectors, but the housings were designed for HID from the beginning. It wasn't just a standard H4 incandescent bulb housing they stuck an HID into. Both the G35 & the Prius use H4 Halogen bulbs on the standard headlights & HB5 HID bulbs for the HID headlights. The bulbs are not interchangeable. They both have different part numbers for the HID & Halogen headlight housings, too. All I'm saying is if it were as simple as swapping the bulb & adding the ballasts, the OEMs wouldn't have two different assemblies.

I didn't say you will completely lose your high beams or low beams. I just said it would be a lot more expensive to do it.

In the long run, I always say "it's YOUR car, do what YOU want with it". I firmly believe that just because someone wants to do something I may not do doesn't make them "wrong" or stupid. I also love the fact that we can disagree on issues here & put our points forward without hurling insults & hopefully everybody finds out what they want to know. That's one of the reasons why MalibuRacing.com is the best G-body website on earth.

Thanks for airing things out with me. Hopefully we got decent info out for the members.

Tommy

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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 2:29 pm 
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I love respectable information full rebuttals, it's the only way mature people can have conversations and learn from each other.

That being said... I'm not quite sure where you are getting your part numbers for the G35 or the Prius, but many of the vehicles using HID's from the factory are using the same kind of bulb. It is used on many vehicles by different manufacturers.

You will find either the D1R, D1S, or D2R. The Inifniti and the prius have the D2R, the Escalade has the D1R, and the D1S is a newer style bulb that has the ignitor built on to the base of the bulb eliminating the ballast.

I'll completely agree with you that the bulbs should not be interchanged between housings, however if you can safely aim the headlights then why not? They give a great clean crisp look to the front of your vehicle rather than a dull burning element from the days of Benjamin Franklin.

And truthfully HID days are numbered with so many manufacturer's switching to variant LED lighting in their headlights, I've been reading on some of the new ideas they are coming out with and I can't wait to get my hands on the new technology. I want to crack them and figure out ways to use them. Most of these are available overseas but out government lacks in keeping up with them.


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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:39 pm 
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I haven't read the full replies, but I'm still considering HID myself. I would likely use a bi xenon style, where part of the filament is covered until a solenoid is triggered... probably try it in my current housings (already have H4s on the Malibu), and then decide whether or not I would want a projector. The Retrofit Source is one site I've been pooking at stuff, they have small retrofit projectors to get a more correct projector for HID.

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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:50 pm 
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If you have a choice don't get the diamond cut headlights for the HID's, get the headlights that have diffusers on the front lense like the original sealed beams do. The light will scatter better than a solid clear lens and you won't blind oncoming traffic.


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 Post subject: Re: HID Headlights?
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:48 pm 
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I have the diamond style... I've had them for probably 8-9 years now, before HID was even a thought. You can kinda see them below.
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