Guideplate vs self-aligning roller rockers

tiedyemike8

Frequent Racer
Oct 28, 2009
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Naperville, IL
If your heads are not milled for guide plates, then the pushrods are guided by the heads themselves. The hole where the pushrod comes through the head acts as the guide. If you use self aligning rockers with that head, you could cause the parts to bind up, because they are trying to be guided by two different spots. Use regular rockers.

Self aligning rockers are intended to be used with hydraulic cams and on GM factory heads made from 87-99, and some aftermarket heads designed to use factory parts. These heads do not have integral pushrod guides, the pushrod holes are enlarged. Earlier heads have smaller pushrod holes, usually with straight sides, that are designed to be an integrated pushrod guide in the head.

Self aligning rockers are not a good choice for performance applications. By design, if the engine ever experienced valve float, the rocker could jump off the end of the valve, sending the valvetrain parts out of alignment, and cause extra mechanical damage. Guideplates, and heads with integral pushrod guides, do not have this problem.

Bottom line is, your heads have integral pushrod guides. You don't need guide plates or self aligning rockers. Just use regular style rockers. If you use a cam with higher lift, check pushrod clearance where it comes through the head. Sometimes those holes need to be elongated (kept the same width, but milled a longer length) when using higher lift cams.

If you plan on running a high lift cam, at high rpm, with higher spring pressures, then you might want to then have the heads milled for guide plates and screw in studs, and have the pushrod holes enlarged. This is the best solution for performance use, short of a shaft rocker system.

Hope this makes sense.
 

bracketchev1221

Dragway Regular
Apr 22, 2009
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Mountville Pa
rjleiker said:
Neither one of you seem to be on the same page as me. I'm referring to these for use on a 1st generation small block chevy...
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G6936-16/?rtype=10.

These have full roller tip and fulcrum with the alignment rails built into the roller tip, so they should accommodate for the longer travel valve lift.

I guess my main query has to do with the friction/drag of the guideplates on the pushrods versus the stability of the alignment rails on the roller tip.

No, I think we are on the same page. Read it again.

Self aligning rockers only have thin little plates along side the tip roller that center the rocker over the valve tip. To me this is for a stock lift cam. When you get into long valve travel the rocker may not be centered EXACTLY over the tip. You do not want to rely of these little plates to keep the valve train straight. It is better to hold the pushrod straight and reduce the leverage effect on the rocker.

When you get into high lift cams, there is a lot of movement in the valvetrain. Valve angles and pushrod angles may not make the rocker sit directly over the tip. Even with guide plates, I have seen rocker tips slightly to the left or right of center on a valve. This does not make it bad, but whatever forces are present due to misalignment will be multiplied at the rocker tip due to lever effects. If you stabilize the valve train with a heavy plate at the pushrod, there will be no other forces on the rocker other than straight up and down on the valve because the rocker is free to find it's happy location.
 

rjleiker

Amateur Racer
Thread starter
Sep 24, 2008
261
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Derby, KS

bracketchev1221

Dragway Regular
Apr 22, 2009
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Mountville Pa
Have you had the valve covers off yet? I have never seen a Dart head that didn't come already with screw in studs and guideplates.
 

rjleiker

Amateur Racer
Thread starter
Sep 24, 2008
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Derby, KS
hmm... I haven't had them off yet. Maybe that would be a good investment of time to find out exactly what I've got. And maybe could find something awesome under there.
Thanks for all the input.
 

Bar50

Pro Stocker
Jan 31, 2009
1,870
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Tulsa, OK
bracketchev1221 said:
Have you had the valve covers off yet? I have never seen a Dart head that didn't come already with screw in studs and guideplates.


Well. my Dart Iron Eagle Vortecs from Summit (its milled into the end of each head) use self align rockers.

I have the GMPP 1.6 ratio full rollers that look just like these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-G6936-16/?rtype=10

Only they are natural finish and have neat little bow ties on them.


The heads do have screw in studs, not cut out for the guide plates though. Might nor fit with center bolt valve covers like stud girdles...?
 

tiedyemike8

Frequent Racer
Oct 28, 2009
658
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Naperville, IL
That's because they are vortec style heads and designed to be able to use factory parts.
 

rjleiker

Amateur Racer
Thread starter
Sep 24, 2008
261
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Derby, KS
so they should say the model or casting number on the end of the head? driver's side or passenger side?
I'm not sure they are the Iron Eagles. Has Dart ever made any other cast iron heads? They are 1st generation SBC heads with perimeter bolts, not center bolts.
 

Bar50

Pro Stocker
Jan 31, 2009
1,870
2
38
Tulsa, OK
rjleiker said:
so they should say the model or casting number on the end of the head? driver's side or passenger side?
I'm not sure they are the Iron Eagles. Has Dart ever made any other cast iron heads? They are 1st generation SBC heads with perimeter bolts, not center bolts.


No, they are milled with Summit Racing on the face end of each head.
Center bolt valve cover only.
Screw in studs. No guide plates.
Clearly cast in to the head DART and IRON EAGLE.
Straight plug.
Vortec intake only, not dual not first gen, or second gen with the changed angle four center bolts (around the exhaust cross over)

Pretty sure its these:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-151124/

I am going to port match mine to the intake gasket, you can see in the Summit pics they are not opened up.

I got them with an air gap intake off of craigslist for a smoking deal, they guy said I was the only one to actually come and see them in person.
 

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